“The road from the moon to Nagorno-Karabakh is also open” – Pashinyan in an interview with Euronews
Euronews interview with Pashinyan
“The road from the moon to Nagorno-Karabakh is also open,” the Prime Minister of Armenia said. This is how Pashinyan responded to the remark of a journalist from the Euronews TV channel that Azerbaijan denies the blockade of the Lachin corridor and claims that Karabakh Armenians can use the road through Aghdam, that is, Azerbaijani territory.
He talked about the situation in NK, explained in detail what the “humanitarian crisis” means, in which 120,000 Armenians live after the blockade of the Lachin corridor. He touched upon the negotiation platforms, where the possibility of resolving relations with Azerbaijan, and their productivity are being discussed. He stressed that, along with the “geopolitical jealousy” of the mediators towards each other, he has recently noticed the readiness of international partners to “combine their efforts”.
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On the situation in NK and the reasons for the continuation of the conflict
The very first question of journalist Anelise Borges concerned Nagorno-Karabakh, which, according to her, “was the scene of one of the most brutal episodes in the recent history of the South Caucasus.” She asked the prime minister why tensions have not subsided “even after the 2020 peace deal.” Pashinyan replied:
“First of all, I must say that the document signed on November 9, 2020 [according to which hostilities were stopped] is not a peace agreement or, as you called it, a peace deal in its legal aspect. But not so much de jure as de facto a number of its provisions have been flagrantly violated. Unfortunately, many provisions are regularly violated and violated by Azerbaijan.
You noted in your question about Nagorno-Karabakh, and this is clear to everyone, but Azerbaijan, for example, continues to insist that there is no Nagorno-Karabakh. Although the Tripartite Statement dated November 9, which is signed by the President of Azerbaijan as well, states the presence of the entity “Nagorno-Karabakh”.
Moreover, it is noted that there is a line of contact in Nagorno-Karabakh, Nagorno-Karabakh has a territory, which is determined by the 7th paragraph of the tripartite statement. Moreover, paragraph 7 of the same statement provides that internally displaced persons and refugees return to the territory of NK and adjacent areas under the control of the Office of the UN High Commissioner for Refugees.
Unfortunately, Azerbaijan has not yet secured this obligation and this right. Moreover, in a number of villages from which the Armenians were evicted during the war, construction work is underway, and Azerbaijan claims that it will populate these areas with Azerbaijanis.
Not to mention the fact that, contrary to the 8th point of the tripartite statement, prisoners, hostages and other detainees have not yet been returned to Armenia, until recently there were 33 prisoners, and 2 more people were recently abducted.
The Lachin corridor, which is also defined in a tripartite statement and is aimed at ensuring the connection of Nagorno-Karabakh with the Republic of Armenia, according to the same document, signed by the President of Azerbaijan, should be under the control of Russian peacekeepers. At the same time, the Lachin corridor is not only a road, but also a territory 5 kilometers wide, and it is illegally blocked by Azerbaijan.”
Is peace possible?
“Peace is not only possible, but must take place. This is my approach, this is my conviction and my faith. But for this to become a reality, it is also important that the international community know certain nuances in order to understand why progress is not moving at a sufficient pace.
I can start with our penultimate meeting in Brussels, when, in the presence of the President of the European Council, Charles Michel, we agreed with the President of Azerbaijan, reached an agreement that Armenia and Azerbaijan would mutually recognize each other’s territorial integrity of 29,800 square meters and 86,600 square meters, after which Charles Michel made a corresponding statement, after which, when the Armenian journalists asked me about it, I publicly confirmed this fact.
So far, the President of Azerbaijan has not publicly confirmed this agreement. True, he did not deny it. This is a nuance that creates a certain lack of trust.
We also have an agreement that between Baku and Stepanakert, which is the capital and main city of Nagorno-Karabakh, there should be a dialogue on the rights and security of the Armenians of Nagorno-Karabakh within the framework of an international mechanism. This dialogue is still missing.
But we must work consistently. No one promised that achieving peace would be easy. If it were easy, peace would have been established long ago.”
About intermediaries and non-fulfilled agreements
“The advantages of mediation in general have long been known to everyone, but all mediations have certain disadvantages. Each mediation has its own unique shortcoming, and if I may, I will talk about the shortcoming. For example, look, in the context of the Brussels platform, we see the following problem, and it is a long-term one.
Each mediation has its own unique disadvantage, and if I may, I will talk about the disadvantage. For example, look, in the context of the Brussels platform, we see the following problem, and it is a long-term one.
We negotiate, reach certain agreements in the presence of the President of the European Council. And if any of the parties does not fulfill these agreements, then even specific assessments do not follow.
I can give a specific example: in my presence, the President of Azerbaijan, in the presence of the President of the European Council, promised and pledged at the end of last year that in the next week, within 7-15 days, this was last year, he would return 10 prisoners. So far, this obligation has not been fulfilled.
I suppose that effective mediation is when, in case of non-fulfillment of agreements, a certain at least political attitude is formed towards the party that does not fulfill these obligations. For example, on the Brussels platform, we do not see this, and I constantly raise this issue.
I can tell you a secret: we even prepared a document, which we called an “audit”, where we listed the agreements that were reached at the Brussels site, but were not subsequently done. The result is a rather thick package, which is a concern.”
About the competition of intermediary platforms
“We are witnessing, figuratively speaking, certain scenes of geopolitical jealousy. Moreover, such phenomena were regularly noticed from different sides, not only from one, but from different sides. For now, however, I must note with satisfaction that there already seem to be some shifts in emphasis.
The change is this: we hear statements from all sides that they welcome and will welcome any platform that will favor the peace process. And this is very important.
Of course, it will be more effective if international partners combine their efforts. Recently, there have been signs that they are showing some interest in this logic.”
What is happening in the Lachin corridor
The Euronews journalist asked about the situation in the Lachin corridor, stressing that “the International Court of Justice, the European Court of Human Rights, the US, the EU demanded guarantees of free movement” along this road.
“First of all, I would like to separate the decision of the International Court of Justice from the other factors you listed, because the decision of the International Court of Justice is legally binding. That is, it is the highest international court, the decisions of which have the highest legal force. And this court, on the basis of the claim of Armenia on February 22 of this year. decided that Azerbaijan should take all possible measures to ensure the two-way movement of vehicles, goods and citizens through the Lachin corridor. And on July 6, this decision was once again confirmed.
This is also very important from the point of view of the logic of the international legal order, since the decision of the highest court of international law is not implemented. In general, in terms of law and legitimacy, I think this is a bad message on a global scale and food for thought for the international community.
At the very least, we will work to raise this issue in international instances.
What is happening in Nagorno-Karabakh? There is a humanitarian crisis in Nagorno-Karabakh. What does a humanitarian crisis mean? Food is not supplied to Nagorno-Karabakh at all, there are no external food supplies, there are no basic necessities, there is no baby food, there are no medicines, there are no hygiene items, other essentials, natural gas supplies to Nagorno-Karabakh are blocked by Azerbaijan, electricity supply to Nagorno-Karabakh is blocked by Azerbaijan , the fuel supply is blocked by Azerbaijan. And in this sense, we are facing a real threat of hunger, health problems and so on.”
On Baku’s proposal to replace the Lachin corridor with the Aghdam route
“Look, I don’t know what you are talking about, because I am talking about the document that I signed, which has the status of an international document. It is very clearly stated there that the Lachin corridor, which is under the control of Russian peacekeepers and is not just a road, but a 5 km wide section, should be outside the control of Azerbaijan and should provide a link between Nagorno-Karabakh and Armenia.
In principle, excuse me, I will say something a little absurd, but the road from the moon to Nagorno-Karabakh is also open, there are no checkpoints, but I cannot talk about institutions unknown to me. What is this road? From Mars, from the moon? I’m talking about what is a documented concept. Now this road is closed, if someone doubts, they can try to get to Nagorno-Karabakh right now.
By the way, yesterday the International Committee of the Red Cross stated that due to the blocking of the Lachin corridor, it has no opportunity to deliver humanitarian aid to Nagorno-Karabakh. What does it mean? This means, firstly, the International Committee of the Red Cross officially declares the need to deliver humanitarian aid to Nagorno-Karabakh, otherwise it would not have declared that it cannot deliver aid. Second, it fixes that it can’t do it. Thirdly, it cannot do this because of the blockade of the Lachin corridor. This was followed, if I am not mistaken, by the reaction of the international organization “Freedom House” with a call to ensure the access of humanitarian cargo to Nagorno-Karabakh.
The Armenian government has decided to send 400 tons of humanitarian cargo to Nagorno-Karabakh. Let’s see if this aid reaches Nagorno-Karabakh or not.”
Appeal to the people of Azerbaijan
In response to the proposal of the Euronews journalist to turn to “the other side, the people of Azerbaijan, and not the political leaders” with whom he meets in negotiations, Pashinyan replied:
“I don’t think it’s a very successful genre. Because when two politicians talk to each other, in fact, two peoples are talking. Therefore what we are talking about is, of course, an international platform, but it is also directed to the people. And if there is something to say, then we can say this: what I said from the first second was also addressed to the people of Azerbaijan.
In such cases, there are standby suggestions: we have been living here for many years and we still have to live here for a long time. I think all the words have been said.
By the way, there is perhaps one message that is equally addressed to the public of both Armenia and the public of Azerbaijan. The society of Armenia and the society of Azerbaijan must demand peace from their authorities. This should be formulated as a public demand. They must demand peace, flexibility and the ability to meet this demand.“
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Interview with Armenian Prime Minister Pashinyan Euronews
