President of Georgia to BBC: the Russian threat, the military base in Abkhazia, and Saakashvili

“I think we should all be afraid of Putin’s success in Ukraine. But I don’t think he will succeed. Yes, he has not been defeated militarily, but he is not the victor,” said Georgian president Salome Zurabishvili on the BBC’s HARDtalk show.

She avoided the question regarding the pardon of the country’s ex-president Mikheil Saakashvili, however, she admitted the possibility of his extradition. As well as the possibility that the creation of a Russian military base in Abkhazia amidst the war in Ukraine could also involve Georgia in the war.

About the Russian threat

“Russia has invaded Georgia at least three times. It’s not about separatism, but about direct occupation, about Russian military bases on our territory. What Russia is trying to do now and what it will continue to do is a hybrid war that has already begun. It tries to win and destabilize the situation through propaganda.

Today another person was kidnapped in the occupied territory. This happens constantly, they take hostages. Thus, Russia constantly tries to destabilize Georgia. The only thing that can be said is that we are a bit more effective than other countries in this situation because Georgia has experience,” said Zurabishvili.

Asked whether she believes Russia wants to gain control over Georgia, the president responded that Russia wants to control not only Georgia but also part of Europe:

“It has old ambitions and the desire to remain an imperial state, but should we think about what Russia wants, or about what we want?“.

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On pardoning Saakashvili

“How possible is it to hold fair elections in the country considering that the third president of Georgia is in jail?” Zurabishvili was asked.

To which she responded that “free and fair elections do not depend on where Saakashvili ends up.” According to her, Saakashvili is not a political prisoner but is in jail for actual crimes.

Zurabishvili did not answer the question about the possibility of pardoning Mikheil Saakashvili, although she noted that it would be better for the country’s reputation if Saakashvili “were somewhere else.” She cited examples of other countries where similar problems were resolved and mentioned the extradition of Saakashvili to Ukraine, of which he is a citizen, as one of such solutions.

“From my side, I have only one option, which I never comment on outside the country, and rarely inside, since there are many other people waiting for a pardon, and if you start giving explanations or justifications – it would be very unfair to those people.

Therefore, I will not comment. It is a moral decision that I will make independently and I will be the one to bear responsibility for it. And it is not something that can be influenced by external or internal pressure,” stated the president.

About the Russian base in Abkhazia

Asked whether the creation of a Russian military base in the port of Abkhazia amid the war in Ukraine could involve Georgia in the war, the president answered that it is possible.

“Right now, this project is part of Russian propaganda. Putin, an old KGB agent, is actually leading more of a psychological war. But what is happening with this port is very important, and Europeans should understand this because the Black Sea is at risk. It is unacceptable for Russia to control this part of the Black Sea,” warns Zurabishvili.

According to her, in this case, future projects of the European Union related to strategic transport routes in the Black Sea will be threatened.

“We must react now; we should not wait for the construction and operation of the port in occupied Abkhazia. Russia needs to see that the EU considers the Black Sea de facto a European sea, where Europe has the right to be,” declared Zurabishvili.